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A few of us ever get to be living legends.

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I think it takes, first of all, a certain aura.

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It takes a certain, you have to be a legend, I guess, before you become a living legend.

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And then you have to go off somewhere where you sort of disappear for a long period of

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time.

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I kind of think that's what Ray Palmer did when he quit the Zift Davis Publishing Company

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where he was head of their fiction group.

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He was editor of Amazing Stories, of Fantastic Adventures, of other fiction magazines they

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had when the company decided that they were going to move to New York.

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Ray began to make other plans.

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At the same time, I was editor of Flying Magazine, and I didn't want to go to New York

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any more than Ray did.

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And together we tried to work out a common venture, and that venture was Fate Magazine.

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I think Ray mostly contributed the concept, and I contributed the name.

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Many people have asked me, where did the name Fate come from?

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And it came from a list of names that move people that had been published in Fortune

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Magazine.

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We thought Fate is one of the words that move people.

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And you have to understand that we looked upon this as professional publishers, and

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I at least became hooked after we started Fate Magazine and not before.

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Ray doesn't make many public appearances.

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He's often amherst Wisconsin on his farm with his own private life, with his own dam generating

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his own electricity.

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And I don't say he's completely self-sufficient, but he achieves a lot more of it than the

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rest of us.

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Ray is editor of Search Magazine, Ray Palmer's Forum, and Space World.

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For many years he published Flying Saucers, which was a UFO periodical.

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He has emerged, if I'm correct, as the foremost exponent of the earthly origin of UFOs.

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The early advocated, and you can correct me again, the two polar regions as the location

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of hidden saucer vases.

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Ray created a major sensation in science fiction by publishing the accounts of Richard Shaver,

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who claimed he had visited the inner earth and discovered a whole new civilization.

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The Shaver mystery and a subsequent endorsement of inner earth theories created a continuing

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controversy among UFO enthusiasts.

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And I may say I've been braced on it several times today by people who say, well, what about

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this inner earth and what about that?

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What about the people who live inside the earth?

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It was Ray Palmer who commissioned the early writings of Kenneth Arnold on the 30th anniversary

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of whose sightings this conference is based.

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Ladies and gentlemen, Ray Palmer, a legend in his time.

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I hope this works better.

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Fine.

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I may be like the Magnetic among other things.

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I felt when I first became the editor of Amazing Stories that I wanted to reach the

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younger people.

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So I got into the sort of cowboy sort of science fiction which offended a great many of the

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people like Heinlein and so on.

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And although I can say I bought Isaac Asimov's first story, it's the only one he ever sold

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me because he didn't want to be associated with the kids that I was reaching.

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Anyway, about 1943, I got a letter from a man named Richard Shaver who said he had an

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ancient alphabet which was common to all languages.

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And when I published it, and I did, and this is, I think, where the UFO first got its start

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because I got hundreds of letters from people saying, this alphabet is really unique because

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I tried it out in various languages and it really does work as Shaver said.

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Well, what Shaver said briefly is that the English language is the origin of all languages.

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And I think any professional in the audience will tell you that's absolutely wrong, that

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English is a derivative of all of the languages that preceded it from the Sanskrit on.

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Well I tried it out myself and I tried it among the staff of Zip Davis and they were

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very amazed.

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Reporter came over from the Chicago Tribune and he tried different words on me and said,

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use the alphabet and decipher them.

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Well I used languages that I'd never heard of before and I deciphered them correctly

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and he says, you know what you're doing?

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You're reading my mind.

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Well, I wasn't reading his mind.

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I was using Shaver's alphabet.

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If I had been reading his mind, I would have considered it to be an even more amazing thing

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than finding an alphabet which was a common denominator to all languages.

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So I wrote Shaver and I asked him where he got the language and that's where I got the

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surprise of my life.

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The letter he sent back was 11,000 words long.

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It was called a warning to future man and it claimed that Mr. Shaver had spent eight

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years in an underground civilization in the caves and that there he had met two types

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of people.

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One were the Dero.

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Now D is a symbol for disintegration or destructive and Roe is a shortening of the word robot

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or robotic so that a D-Roe is a robotically controlled human being.

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Conversely, a T-Roe is which T is just integrative and you can compare it to the cross of Christianity

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if you want to.

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But it is constructive and persons guided by T are robotically controlled for good.

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Roe said that he had spent eight years down in the caves with these people and his warning

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to a future man was what these people had told him about how it came to be that they

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were down there.

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It seems that around 12,000 years ago the earth was bombarded by radiation from a solar

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flare of great magnitude and life on the surface became impossible because of radioactivity.

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So the first thing they did was retreat underground in vast cities that they built with their

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tremendous science.

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But it was necessary to use surface air and water and gradually these underground cities

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became contaminated so the only answer was that they had to flee this planet.

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So they built spaceships and the privileged ones were able to leave but the bulk of the

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population was abandoned and they were termed in by Schaefer the abandoned Dero.

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These were the people among whom he says he lived for eight years.

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These people had access to the tremendous scientific machines that were left by this

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super civilization that left the earth and they were using them to detrimental purposes

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because their minds had been affected by the radioactives and their thought was negative

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instead of positive.

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The best example I can give you of that is the Boy Scout who said to the old lady, I'm

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going to take you across the street and by that which his intent was good but by the

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time he got to the middle of the street the radioactives in his mind had made the thought

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turn around and become evil and he pushed the old lady under a truck.

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Now that's the type of thinking that goes on says Schaefer in the caves.

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So I didn't think it was a very good environment and I didn't think much of the people.

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But many of my readers in reading the stories began to tell me as a matter of fact when

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we published the first story we got 50,000 letters saying that not only was Schaefer

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selling the truth but thousands of them claimed to have also been in the caves and they confirmed

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his story.

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Well Mr. Ziff who read the first story called me into his office and he said, Ray these

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are my magazines I'm not going to allow you to ruin them.

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You called this story a true story and you know it isn't.

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He says I'm going to destroy our circulation.

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So I said Mr. Ziff would you allow me to ask my staff to bring in the letters that we

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received on this story.

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Well it took seven or eight people to bring them in and there was a tremendous pile on

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the floor in front of Mr. Ziff and he said to me Ray the only thing that I'm disappointed

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in is why didn't you promote this thing the way it deserved.

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Well I did promote it over the next four years and we raised the circulation of amazing to

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185,000 from a beginning of around 75,000 and we held that.

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But I'm going to tell you something about the way we raised that circulation which is

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another thing that got me more and more convinced that Schaefer really had something.

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This was during the war and Ziff Davis was short of paper and the pulp magazines with

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circulations up near a total of eight million with nine or ten titles had sufficient paper

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compared to Ziff Davis publications far in advance on the quota system of any other publisher

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in the country.

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Well Mr. Fuller's magazine Flying was one of those magazines and it needed paper so they

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stole the paper from me.

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They stole the paper for pop photography and they had enough magazines to flood the news

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stands and became one of the leading publishers in the country simply because they had paper

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all due to Mr. Schaefer and here's how Schaefer got the paper.

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I told him we didn't have the paper because of the war so we couldn't print extra copies

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of amazing stories.

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He said no problem I'll just contact the Darrow.

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He says what's the name of your circulation manager?

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I said Mr. Strong.

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He says okay Mr. Strong will give you the paper and the Darrow somehow put the thought in Mr.

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Strong's mind that this particular issue we ought to come out with 50,000 extra copies

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of amazing stories.

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Well Mr. Davis heard of this he was furious because we were harming flying in pop photography

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and he said Ray you know these cock and bull stories they're not going to sell.

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So I said well you call Mr. Strong and see what the circulation reports are and he called

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Mr. Strong and Mr. Strong said you know we have received an order from the American News

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Company for 100,000 additional copies of this magazine because they had sold it out and

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Mr. Davis without altering his tone of voice in mid-sentence said in effect Ray you're

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ruining my magazine but I don't understand why you haven't given it the proper promotion.

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He says let's get behind this thing Ray you're missing a great opportunity.

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Now how could I tell Mr. Davis the reason we had all his paper was because a Darrow

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down in a cave that directed a tell-all Ray on Mr. Strong and it made him take the paper

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back from Mr. Fuller.

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But I became interested in Mr. Shaver now because when you produce a phenomena like

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that you're not talking about an art ordinary person so I went to Pennsylvania to visit

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Mr. Shaver and I found out that he was a very simple man he was a hell of a good chess player

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I never was able to beat him and certainly nothing wrong with him mentally and while

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I was there we talked until about two o'clock in the morning then he took me up to my bedroom

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and it turned out it was a bedroom which I had to go through his bedroom and there was

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no other way out so I was stuck in there.

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While his wife had to go out and feed the numerous animals and chickens that they had

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and about three o'clock she came back up but he went to bed at two along with me in his

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bedroom and I left the door ajar because he told me about all these voices that talked

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to him and I wanted to hear them and to my utter amazement I did.

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Mr. Shaver apparently went into a trance that's what I would call it.

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I heard five voices speaking a young child and two women and two adults and the subject

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of their conversation was that four miles down four miles away somebody had been touring

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in the four quarters by horses that afternoon and this was a very terrible thing and it

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shouldn't be allowed to happen.

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Now I agreed heartily so I said yes I agree this shouldn't happen and instantly the voices

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changed and the little child's voice said pay no attention to him he said jerk.

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Then they began talking in a language I didn't understand but later on they reverted back

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to English and they went through the same rigamarole again and I said let me in on this

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what's it all about and again I was called a jerk.

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Now after an hour Mr. Shaver came upstairs and the voices seized instantly and I might

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add that when these voices were talking sometimes all five would be talking at once.

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Now if this was ventriloquism or it was Shaver's vocal cords doing it it was quite a stunt.

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Well they stopped instantly when Mr. Shaver came up and I went to sleep and that was it

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for the rest of the night.

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When I got up in the morning Mr. Shaver asked me how I slept and I didn't want to spoil

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my act and I wanted to stay a few more days so I said I slept fine and he says I thought

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they would because I thought you would because I told him not to make a fuss while you're

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here and I said for Pete's sake let him make all of us they want.

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The next night I went to bed and I slept like a rock which I never do and I found out no

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more as far as the voices are concerned except that I was convinced Mr. Shaver was hearing

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real voices.

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When I went back to Chicago and we began running Shaver's stories and as the Shaver mystery

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progressed he told me about the science that was occurring in the caves and here I'm going

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to get to the flying saucers and the relationship of science fiction to flying saucers.

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He told me that in the caves they had tunnels connecting the various caves.

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Tunnels sometimes hundreds of miles along crisscrossing the entire United States and

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as a matter of fact the whole world and these tortures curved caves with their many obstructions

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and rough walls were traversed by what he called a roll-at.

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A roll-at is a vehicle that is robotically controlled in other words operates without

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a pilot and they floated about a foot off the floor of the cave tunnels and they traveled

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about 1500 miles an hour and when they reached a turn in the tunnel they would make this

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turn at 1500 miles an hour and I couldn't understand why even the Darrow weren't crushed

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against the walls of their craft.

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Well it was about that time that Mr. Arnold made his sighting and Shaver called me up

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and he says you see I told you they traveled that way and he says they do come out on

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the surface and they finally have come out.

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He says you know peculiar method that they traveled which is very similar to the rockets

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that we have today which the Russians are so concerned with because they follow the contour

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of the surface of the earth perhaps 50 to 100 feet above it and when they get to the

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tree they zip right over it and they don't contact and wreck themselves.

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Well you can understand why Kenneth Arnold was confused at the way these things have

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traveled.

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To Mr. Shaver it was triumph itself.

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I had the proof right there in my hands but at the same time I also had another proof

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and it was a very disturbing one.

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I got a letter from a nurse who was a nurse in the Ypsilanti State Hospital for the Insane

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in Ypsilanti Michigan.

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She said I know of Mr. Shaver very well because I was his nurse during the eight years in

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which he was incarcerated.

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You can imagine my consternation at this point.

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I'm dealing with a madman.

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I'm dealing with a schizophrenic with a paranoid person who has spent eight years in a catatonic

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state living in a world in his own imagination.

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Now how can I go on with the Shaver mystery as treating it as a reality unless I assume

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that what is happening Mr. Shaver is the very same thing that is happening to many of you

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out there when you say you are contactees or when you hear voices.

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I asked my readers to report to me what the voices said and I asked how many of them heard

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voices and by using the formula that advertisers use to tell how many people are reading their

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magazine so they can sell an ad on that basis and know what to charge I concluded that there

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were 20 million people in this country who heard voices.

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So I contacted about a hundred of them and I asked them to report to me weekly what the

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voices said and to my utter amazement I would get dozens of reports on the same day of people

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who had heard the voices from people widely scattered all over the country who heard the

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voices say identical words.

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Now if Mr. Shaver was a schizophrenic and the voices were in his own mind and all of these

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other hundred people were schizophrenics the voices would be saying different things if

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I am correct in what psychiatry believes about it.

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So then I had to conclude that not only wasn't Shaver a psychopath but that he was re-hearing

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voices which were real and what else could I conclude that they must be in the caves

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that he's talking about although by then I had decided they weren't in caves.

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I had come across a book called Oaspi.

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In Oaspi which deals with the history of the earth for the past 79,000 years and the history

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of the heavens for the same period it speaks of the spirits of the dead floating upward

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to various levels or plateaus depending on their development and between these plateaus

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the ethereans would construct what they called roadways and travel between the plateaus along

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these roadways was by vehicles exactly similar to the things that Mr. Shaver described as

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traversing the tunnels and Mr. Arnold said he saw along the cascade ranges and they made

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these same peculiar fluttering motions beginning to put two and two together.

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We're not talking about two different things we're talking about a psychic phenomena and

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yet a real physical phenomena because Kenneth Arnold is very adamant when he says that these

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were machines and I think Stan Friedman will say the same thing.

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I thought Mr. Heineck would say the same thing but to my astonishment he has converted

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himself almost entirely to the psychic phenomena and got to flying saucers.

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Now I want to get into some into a little into the diversion that the clever Mr. Fuller

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knows I will get into.

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I want to say that I want to retitle this speech the stymie factor.

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Well Kenneth Arnold and I are very familiar with this stymie factor and this is the element

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of ridicule.

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I think this is the thing which Arnold and I have lived with for 30 years and which is

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the reason I have not appeared in public in a group such as this because when I get to

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the things I'm about to touch upon I know that among you at least 50 percent will get

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a glazed look in your eyes.

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Some of you will have to go to the bathroom and you will leave and you will not come back.

253
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Now I made a speech like this once before and you can believe that I'm saying a factual

254
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thing or an allegorical thing if you wish but in the midpoint of my speech I found that

255
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I was entirely alone.

256
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You know that when you are in the bathroom singing how wonderful you sound.

257
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Well I heard my voice reverberating from the walls and it sounded wonderful and I talked

258
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for two hours and after I got through I stood up and gave myself a standing ovation for

259
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ten minutes.

260
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But the stymie factor is what I really want to talk about now and it is stymied every

261
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,200
one of you I'm sure.

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My first real encounter with this stymie effect was when I stood on a stage similar to this

263
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in Chicago around 1950 and I debated the flying saucers with Willie Lay and I brought to this

264
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debate what I thought was as good an evidence as we had at that time and I was very sincere

265
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about taking the positive side of this debate.

266
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And Mr. Lay asked me a question he said how do the flying saucers fly and I thought you

267
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have just given me the opening I want because I have just told you about the different ways

268
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they fly in Shaver's Tunnels, in O'Lossy's roadways in the atmosphere and in Kenneth

269
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Arnold's sighting over the Cascades they fly like this but Mr. Lay didn't give me an opportunity

270
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to describe it.

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He withdrew from his pocket having come very prepared for the debate a saucer, a minus cup

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of course and he tossed it into the air and fell to the stage with a crash and broke into

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100 pieces and there were 2,000 people out there laughing and there was no possibility

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of me continuing effectively in my end of the debate.

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So I think I did a very unworth while thing then I'm not really proud of it.

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I turned around in my thoughts and I did all I could to help Mr. Lay demolish me.

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Just a month or so ago one of the fan magazines maybe the author is here in guilty of it said

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that in 1950 or so, Willie Lay demolished Ray Palmer on the debate stand and he did.

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And that is why it happened because I was so stymied, so frustrated by the ridicule

280
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that I decided it was not worth my time to waste it on those 2,000 people who had a good

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laugh.

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And Arnold I think can tell you the very same thing.

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If he doesn't stick to his nuts and bolts he'll get the same glazing over and the same

284
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desire to go to the bathroom.

285
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Well, I've been in this saucer thing longer than anybody.

286
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I predate Mr. Arnold by 3 years because I knew about the flying saucers from Mr. Shaver.

287
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This is my 33rd anniversary.

288
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Now fans began to feud about the Shaver mystery and about the flying saucers and it even got

289
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8 pages in a May issue of Life Magazine in 1952.

290
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All of which was of the kind of thing I call the stymie factor.

291
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We were being ridiculed.

292
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Well now I want to go back in time a little bit because I'm not going to be very coherent

293
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,400
in terminology and chronology in this thing.

294
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I want to go back to the Maury Island thing which Mr. Arnold is going to talk about tomorrow.

295
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And I'm going to let him tell you all about it.

296
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I'm not going to go into any great details.

297
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But Harold Dahl sent me a package of fragments he said came from a flying saucer that had

298
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:45,400
crashed or at least dumped some of its fragments on his boat into Kona Harbor.

299
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During his cat or dog we've never decided which, injuring his son and depositing much

300
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:54,920
of this material on Maury Island.

301
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And he sent me a box of these fragments.

302
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,680
Now I had the fragments analyzed by US Steel and by Northwestern University and by the

303
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,760
University of Wisconsin.

304
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,680
And they said in their opinion it was slag from a smelter.

305
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,760
But there was one peculiarity which interested them.

306
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,520
One of the components was calcium.

307
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,320
And calcium burns off at 850 degrees.

308
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:26,320
And they all subjected this material to temperatures in excess of 2500 degrees and the calcium

309
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,840
remained fixed in the metal.

310
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,640
Now you may not consider this significant but it is extremely significant in several

311
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,360
different aspects.

312
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We are going to go into space.

313
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It is necessary to shield our astronauts from radiation.

314
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And calcium has an affinity for radioactive particles like strontium, nandium, various

315
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,840
things.

316
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And it is a good shield for cosmic radiation.

317
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It is also a good shield for radiation from atomic power plants.

318
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They wanted to know how the calcium was retained in this metal and of course I couldn't tell

319
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,280
them.

320
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,640
And I was doubtful of whether I could tell them where I got the material because of this

321
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:06,640
tiny factor.

322
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All I would have to do is say I got them from a flying saucer and we are off on a flying

323
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:12,120
saucer right there.

324
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:14,120
At least I would be.

325
00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:18,160
So I didn't tell them how I just said these fragments had been sent to me and I didn't

326
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know their origin.

327
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:29,800
Well when Mr. Arnold was at Moray Island or at Tokoma it happened that he became so disturbed

328
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,760
at what was going on including men in black and he called me up and said he wanted to

329
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,240
return the $500 I had given him for expenses and get out of there because he didn't like

330
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,240
what was happening.

331
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And he said to me, and this happened to be on my birthday and he erupted my birthday

332
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,520
party, he said the Davidson and Brown are going to fly back to San Francisco with the

333
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,360
fragments which were furnished by Colonel Sanders and also with the fragments which

334
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I had given to Arnold.

335
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And I said to Arnold please don't let these men fly back with these fragments because

336
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I doubt if they will reach their destination alive.

337
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:12,480
Well Mr. Arnold wasn't prepared to go that far just fragments of slag and they may or

338
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,320
may not be from a flying saucer I don't know.

339
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:23,720
Well as you know this B-25 crashed against a mountain near Kelso Washington.

340
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:31,160
One of the occupants of the plane was a hitchhiker who had been taken along it's traditional

341
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,000
that if a military man is present and wants to go someplace a military aircraft is going

342
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,280
there they take him along.

343
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Well as they neared Kelso Washington they made these two hitchhikers strapped on parachutes

344
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:51,800
and they simply dumped them and one of them broke his leg and wound up in the Kelso hospital.

345
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,080
This man later told a reporter from the post intelligence service the adult intelligence

346
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,320
service that what had happened is one of the Indians had burst into flame and the reason

347
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,280
it had burst into flame because the B-25 had been fired upon by a P-51.

348
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:12,120
Now here is where I'm not only going to get into the staining factor I'm going to get

349
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:18,200
into investigations with the CIA and the FBI and Lord knows who else.

350
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:27,240
So all I can say is that this hitchhiker may or may not be telling the truth but it is

351
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:34,600
true that he is not available today nor is the reporter who got the story from him and

352
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:40,280
neither is Davidson or Brown available because they were dead as I predicted.

353
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,320
Arnold called back that night and he told me in very shaken voice these two men were

354
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dead and that he wished he had listened to me and I said Ken don't fly your own plane back.

355
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:58,040
Brown he said I know how to fly and I'm not worried about it and when he tells you tomorrow

356
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:03,640
night about how he crashed his plane I think you'll understand how I felt when I heard that he had

357
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:10,200
crashed and here is where I want to get more into the psychic angle of ufology.

358
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:17,400
I've always been able to do these things myself and the ability to know things without knowing how

359
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,920
I know them is still a mystery to me and I don't really know how I knew that this plane was going

360
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:30,360
to crash but it did and I had recourse then to go back to Mr. Shaver and I talked very seriously to

361
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:36,840
him and he says it's very simple he says the Daryl of course have these wonderful telepathic

362
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:43,160
machines and they told you these things they put a ray on your brain and they they give you this

363
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:49,320
information and that's how it all happens and so since I didn't believe that Shaver was really

364
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:58,120
contacting little people underground but to put it bluntly asked little entities located somewhere

365
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:04,440
in our atmosphere I was again confronted with this tiny factor both in science fiction and in

366
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:10,840
ufology and you can hardly blame me for wanting to retire to South Sea islands or something.

367
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,920
Anyway I'm going to look at my notes here and see what else I want to deviate on.

368
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:25,160
One of the things that happened when this Moray island incident occurred was that

369
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:30,680
Colonel Ruko wrote a book for Project Blue Book and said that the whole thing was a hoax

370
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,760
and that these two men were died on account my account.

371
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:44,120
Well they probably did if the information that I finished Mr. Arnold is the cause of their death

372
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:51,960
but I don't think so I think that somehow it was necessary that the flying saucers not be

373
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substantiated in any way Mr. Arnold will tell you what his frustration is in that respect.

374
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,320
Some of the messed the newspapers made of every story he tried to give them.

375
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,720
Well now I'm going to go back to on the back to a waspy I'm going to talk about these

376
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,040
black toes and roadways and continents in the sky.

377
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,760
I read the Chicago Tribune one morning and I read about a man named Grote Reaver

378
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,120
who lived in Wheaton Illinois and he had built a radar receiver in his backyard.

379
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:32,680
It was a 30 foot disk made out of 24 gauge sheet metal and it rotated north and south on 15 foot

380
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:42,680
concrete pylons and he said that he was receiving nightly intelligent messages from space and they

381
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,240
even reproduced some of the dock dash messages that he was receiving in the paper.

382
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:55,480
I immediately went out to see him but I was of course too late like Arnold Mr.

383
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:02,360
Reaver had been deluged by curiosity seekers newspaper reporters and what have you and he

384
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:08,520
wasn't seeing anybody else he wasn't when you talk to me so I went around to the rear yard and I

385
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:15,800
looked at his receiver and if he was getting signals from outer space as he claimed this

386
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:21,400
machine could only be rotated in the north south direction and if the signals were located very

387
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:27,400
far away you can understand that he could not keep them in focus more than a few seconds.

388
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:34,760
This didn't hold true with his statement that he recorded them at eight hour sessions each night

389
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:43,560
so I felt that Mr. Grote Reaver was not telling the truth and I felt that on my own reasoning power

390
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:49,480
that if he was listening to anything for that period of time it had to be located very close.

391
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:56,040
Now I'm going to mention Stanton Friedman here and I'm not going to say it in any derogatory sense

392
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:02,120
because I admire the man but he is convinced that the flying saucers are extraterrestrial

393
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:09,240
and I only want to ask this little simple question how extra we know that Terra is the name of the

394
00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:15,240
earth it is the ancient name of the earth it refers to the surface of the earth anything

395
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:20,920
extra terrestrial is off the surface of the earth and I want to make the range of extra

396
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:30,520
from say six inches to a hundred miles we can go to 50,000 if we want to but even at 50,000 we

397
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:36,440
run across this difficulty that Grote Reaver could not have focused on enough to get the messages in

398
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:44,120
the period of time he stated so I concluded that his intelligent messages were coming from an area

399
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:51,240
above Wheaton Illinois which like our satellites was fixed in position and only about a hundred miles up

400
00:34:53,960 --> 00:35:01,000
well I discovered then that Mr. Reaver was a member of the Wheaton Spiritualist Society

401
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:07,720
or at least that was something like the title and here again I was stymied I had something hot in

402
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:14,040
my hands and I couldn't do anything with it because you can't believe a spiritualist can you

403
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:19,000
specifically when you're talking about such things as intelligent messages from space or flying

404
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:27,560
saucers or the type of hardware that Mr. Friedman talks about so again we have an introduction

405
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:34,600
into the flying saucer mystery of the psychic because I felt that Mr. Reaver said that his

406
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:41,240
messages came from outer space because how do you say that you are getting messages from

407
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:48,440
a hundred miles up when any pool can see there's nothing there and I then went back to O'Rospey

408
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:54,840
and I found many instances where it was claimed that the drudges which is a significant word

409
00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:04,040
compared to Shaver's Daros or where the lower type of of astral beings in O'Rospey

410
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:12,920
live anywhere from six inches up extra to rest below 200 miles and that they were the source of

411
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:21,320
of these messages and I found in O'Rospey numerous references to these people obsessing

412
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:28,120
or possessing human beings talking to them and I was then reminded of the 20 million people

413
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:35,320
that I just found were capable of hearing voices and I no longer could call schizophrenics

414
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:42,200
so I'm once more confronted with a stymie factor which is insurmountable

415
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,840
and I would have dropped the whole thing right there because I'm not going to get anywhere with it

416
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:53,960
until the US government went to Hawaii built a 10 million dollar receiver and placed Mr.

417
00:36:53,960 --> 00:37:01,480
Grilbriever in charge he is still there they say he is listening to hissing noises from distant

418
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:09,400
galaxies which may have been of some astronomical and scientific and maybe physical significance

419
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:15,560
I don't know I have found that it is of no use to me and I'm sure it's of no use to you

420
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:23,160
and I'm willing to drop it at that except for one thing I don't believe for a minute

421
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:29,640
that Mr. Grilbriever is not listening to the same things he was listening to in Wheaton, Illinois

422
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:37,960
now I'm reminded of Robert Oppenheimer who was asked to build a hydrogen bomb he said we can't do it

423
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:44,680
and I won't do it if I could do it it's too dangerous we might set the atmosphere a fire

424
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:51,080
and destroy the earth and for that he was castigated and called a communist and his clearance was

425
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:56,680
rejected and you all know what happened to Mr. Oppenheimer but then along comes Edward Teller

426
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:04,600
and he lays on the table the complete design of how to build a hydrogen bomb and in my imagination

427
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:10,120
which is very very fertile I put together two and two when I say Grilbriever told him

428
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:16,440
and Grilbriever got it from listening in on this super civilization that exists 100 miles up

429
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,920
the very same one that Mr. Shaver misinterprets as as being underground